I recently took two A+ certification classes (one for Hardware, and one for OS). Sad to say, they were pretty expensive and not very valuable. I learn more from VirtualDr than I did in either class.
I have since taken the OS exam (passed with mediocre score), and feel very disgruntled that I paid over $1000 for the classes that did not in any way prepare me for the exam. I am now very concerned that if I take the Hardware exam, I will not be prepared for it.
I guess this is my way of saying thanks to the other members and the admins of VirtualDr for providing an excellent learning tool, which IMO, is more valuable than a classroom setting.
J.
CataclysmCow
May 18th, 2004, 04:09 PM
$1000? Ouch ...
Sadly, I don't think there is a Virtual DR. cert though :)
Wish you would have asked us before you signed up. Not many people in the industry would reccomend an A+ cert. They are looked at like the GED of computing.
Not that a GED is bad - heck - I dropped out at 16 and got my GED to go to college to get my degree (BS-CS). Same thing with the A+ cert - it can be a pre-requisite for other certs. It's usually advised that you don't go that route though.
Are you in school now?
What type of field do you want to enter?
[edit: spelling]
photolady
May 18th, 2004, 04:27 PM
jslater, you might want to take a look at some of the "Operation Delta" threads. These provide more knowledge than just searching the forums. Some cover hardware in general, others cover specific topics.
I was thinking about getting A+ cert too, but now I'm not so sure if I really need it. Fry's purports their techs are all A+ Certified, but after reading what CataclysmCow said here, not sure it's all that whiz bang. :D I too went to college after my GED, got my BA, then found VDR and learned more here, than I did in four years college.
jmtjet
May 18th, 2004, 04:37 PM
The A+ certification is a stepping stone to better things. Don't think it's worthless.
P3-450
May 18th, 2004, 05:19 PM
Jslater
I also took the A+ classroom courses and although i did find them helpful, i thought they where pretty darn expensive.
I took that to gain some more knowledge, before i head out for bigger things.
Ever since i joined Vdr about 90% of what i know ( which still isnt very much ) has come from being here, and as time goes by i find myself helping out more and more, so obviously somethings working.
Iam currently studying for my Net+, but this time i will be doing it 'self study'.
I dont think they are a waste of time or worthless because im learning, and anyone that says that they are no good then thats their opinion. Its about how you feel about it.
If its too gain entry into an IT career then maybe that the A+ are a form off 'entry level' certs but IMO can prepare you for bigger fish, like MCSE.
I have been trying to get into an IT career for a few years now, but its all about experience here and experience there. I have never given up and i have actually moved a step in the right direction by working in the IT department and have been given the oppurtunity to help out. So hopefully soon all my work would have paid off.
Thanks VDr:)
Rapmaster
May 18th, 2004, 05:54 PM
That said, an MCSE is hardly a guaranteed job. The IT industry is not what it was a few years ago and jobs are hard to come by. A lot of North American jobs are now outsourced overseas. (Luckily I work for the government so hopefully it will be a while before they outsource me!) It's all about experience, personality, who you know and luck :)
Microsoft has a new cert out now: Microsoft Certified Desktop Support Technician. Deals with troubleshooting Windows XP, Office and basic client apps. http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcdst/default.asp (try the free Microsoft Skills Assessment tool on that page.)
Train
May 18th, 2004, 08:26 PM
Not only that, you have to remember there were a lot of those folks releases in the last few years and whole bunches of them would like to get back into the business.
Nix
May 19th, 2004, 07:24 AM
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky.
I got into a government scheme to get young unemployed people trained in computer programming.
Did fast track COBOL programming course in 8 weeks that was usually a 16 week course and then on the job training with a sponsor company for 2 years.
18 & 2/3 years later I'm still with the same company.
No university degree.
hongman
May 19th, 2004, 07:47 AM
Wow, kinda makes me appreciate the situation I'm in. I have just started my NVQ (National Vocational Qualification) in IT Install and Support Level 2.
Luckily enough for me, my work placement is at a government funded IT Center and as part of my course, I have to do A+, Net+ and some MCSE/MCSA Modules. Not only that, any courses they hold here I can sit in on for free.
Fingers crossed in 3-4years time I will be fully qualified and ready to dive into a nice well paid job.
;)
jslater25
May 19th, 2004, 09:31 AM
CataclysmCow- While I don't feel the A+ was a waste of time (other than the actual classroom time), I certainly don't expect it to compensate for a college degree. Unfortunately a college degree is not going to be a valid solution. I am now pushing 30 (still young, but not that young) and don't have the money or the time to go back to school. I already have a bachelor's in Business Admin, but that doesn't really help if I want a career in computers.
I have looked at the MCDST from Microsoft, but they weren't offering it locally until this past week. So in the meantime, I took the position that the more certs I can get, the better off I will be. Surely having the A+ isn't going to HURT me, right? Whether you graduate from high school or take the equivalancy exam, either way you are still out of high school with a paper saying you know your stuff.
I guess I figured that any certification would be better than no certification when I start looking for a new job later this year. I currently work in the IT field, but am unhappy with both the pay and the location. In my situation, my guess is the location IS the reason for the pay (I live in Oklahoma, which is one of the poorest states). If I can get it all together and move to Texas, I should receive a fairly substantial raise in pay (the average in Texas is 50% higher than the average in OK).
jmtjet
May 19th, 2004, 11:12 AM
I have a friend who was a teacher in a vocation high school for many years. He loved messing with computers so he started taking the certifications. A+, MCSE,MCSA, Net+ etc. He's now a self employed consultant making a six figure income and doing what he loves. So hang in there, anything possible.
usil
May 19th, 2004, 11:25 AM
I went the MCP/MCSE route, doing a course which set me back the equivalent to about $5000. What a waste of money! Anything learned there can be learned on your own (and a little help from VDr :D ). I have yet to take the exams, but I don't think having the certificate in hand is what is going to land me a job.
Its not about what you, but about who you know!
hongman
May 19th, 2004, 11:31 AM
but knowledge does help...
usil
May 19th, 2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by hongman
but knowledge does help...
Thats the whole point. Knowledge is what helps. If you make your knowledge known to people around you, you are bound to get a job there, rather than flashing a few fancy certificates. Its both fortunate and unfortunate.
Rapmaster
May 19th, 2004, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by jslater25
If I can get it all together and move to Texas, I should receive a fairly substantial raise in pay (the average in Texas is 50% higher than the average in OK).
A raise in pay might come with an increased cost-of-living. For example, moving to somewhere like California might not be a good idea even if the pay is better.
CataclysmCow
May 19th, 2004, 02:21 PM
Hey - by no means was I trying to imply that a A+ cert was a waste nor did I mean to imply that everyone should get a 4 year degree instead.
I compared it to a GED because by itself it's scourned upon by other people, but it can be used to lead onto other much better things. If it weren't for the GED program I wouldn't be where I am today and if it weren't for the A+ program I know a lot of people who wouldn't be nearly as happy and successfull as they are today.
It's just not a widely advised route to take as you go through the paces of getting into the IT industry.
jslater25
May 19th, 2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Rapmaster
A raise in pay might come with an increased cost-of-living. For example, moving to somewhere like California might not be a good idea even if the pay is better.
That is true Rapmaster, and I have given that concern much thought. Luckily I am originally from Texas and know that the cost of living in cities other than Dallas, Austin, and Houston are not nearly that bad. I could live in Lubbock/Amarillo for roughly the same price as living in Stillwater, Oklahoma. And really, even if I moved somewhere like Austin, cost of living will not increase 50%.
For those of you who are in the IT industry, what qualifications would you look for when hiring? Typically, most companies are looking for people with either the educational background, certain certifications (MCSA, MCSE, etc.), or a prolonged exposure to the field (5+ years). I am mostly self-taught and have been tinkering with computers for many years. I learn as I go, and if I don't know the answer, I certainly don't mind trying to find out. But my resume simply doesn't get me in the door due to the lack of qualifications. As Usil said, its all about WHO you know. I guess I just need to meet more people!
P3-450
May 19th, 2004, 03:43 PM
What's a GED?
CataclysmCow
May 19th, 2004, 04:15 PM
What's a GED?
Graduation Equivelancy Diploma.
It's a high school diploma for drop outs :)
P3-450
May 19th, 2004, 04:18 PM
Ah, now i see.
Spooky Man G
May 19th, 2004, 10:24 PM
speaking of that, I was thinking of taking the exam this summer. I want to know what kind of stuff is in it. Ive less than 100 pages left in Micheal Myers A+ certification exam, but I havent memorized trivial things such as the L2 cache on a P1 chip. I have a good four years of computer experience (as well as a lifetime of computer usage) What is a basic outline of the test?
Rapmaster
May 19th, 2004, 11:28 PM
make sure you know things like the laser printing process and the proper voltages and tolerances on various parts of the system. Apparently those are the two biggest problems people have with the A+ exam.
(and BOOM this thread is back on topic :))
Calpitor
May 19th, 2004, 11:49 PM
Darn Rap beat me to it (again). Talking about the laser printing process here's a handy memnomic: California Cows Won't Do The Fandango for Cleaning Conditioning Writing Developing Transferring and Fusing.
Spooky Man G
May 20th, 2004, 06:48 AM
Thanks. I have a hard time with those blasted laser printers. To me, they're magic boxes that spew out warm pages quickly. Good ol memnomics, I remember in statistics class "Sally Never Had Oysters Suing Dogs" The name stuck, but I forgot its meaning. Kinda destroys the idea of it :p
jslater25
May 20th, 2004, 09:19 AM
As far as the OS portion of the test, here are a few points to know:
1. When troubleshooting an OS using the install CD, know the order of screens
2. Know the specific files needed by each OS (9x, 2k, and XP) for booting.
3. Know when to modify those files (troubleshooting a CD-Rom).
4. Know something about Wireless technology.
Nosferatu
May 20th, 2004, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Spooky Man G
Thanks. I have a hard time with those blasted laser printers. To me, they're magic boxes that spew out warm pages quickly. Good ol memnomics, I remember in statistics class "Sally Never Had Oysters Suing Dogs" The name stuck, but I forgot its meaning. Kinda destroys the idea of it :p
Spooky Man,
That was funny. I usually lurk, but had to reply to this coz for some reason I thought it was really funny. Anyways Ill go back to lurking.....:D
Spooky Man G
May 20th, 2004, 09:55 AM
creepy, just like me... Maybe even spooky :D
Luke92881
May 20th, 2004, 01:35 PM
Wow, I feel bad you spent so much on the class.....
I bought a book and read it cover to cover then I went online and took every practice test I could find over and over again.....
2 weeks later I passed both tests.... I found the hardware portion to be easier. There were a lot of quesion about the laser print process though, luckily that is the part I studied hardest for because it was the one thing reading the book that I didnt know terribly well.
rgarr
May 20th, 2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by photolady
jslater, you might want to take a look at some of the "Operation Delta" threads. These provide more knowledge than just searching the forums. Some cover hardware in general, others cover specific topics.
Hi photolady,
I'm curious as to how I can find the " Operation Delta " threads to study that you refer to. Thank you in advance for your help! BTW, I'm studying (self study) for my A+ certification and believe that a combination of all the things said in this thread are helpful learning tools!
fink
May 20th, 2004, 02:55 PM
Do a search for "operation delta" in the hardware forum...
SuperSparks, my fellow cat lover...thanks so much!
photolady
May 20th, 2004, 04:32 PM
rgarr, looks like you've been taken care of in "Operation Delta". I been offline a bit so didn't see this til just now. Way to go fink, and SuperSparks. :)
Nix
May 20th, 2004, 07:36 PM
Operation Delta All Links.
Note: Have posted this so that in the future when someone is asking about the OD threads it will be possible to do a search for Operation Delta All Links and it should find this thread.
Sarrkazztic
May 20th, 2004, 09:20 PM
I took the liberty of collecting all those links and putting them into a post....and setting it to sticky in the hardware forum.
Nix
May 20th, 2004, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Sarrkazztic
I took the liberty of collecting all those links and putting them into a post....and setting it to sticky in the hardware forum.
Even better :D
photolady
May 20th, 2004, 10:24 PM
Good move Kazz. :)
jslater25
January 17th, 2005, 11:03 AM
just thought I would post a quick update regarding some certs I have been working on and how I feel they benefit me.
I took and passed the A+ OS & Hardware last year, followed by the MCDST.
I plan on pursuing MCSA next, although for this I won't be taking a class. I will buy the books locally and study for the tests without the aid of a teacher, but I always have the help of VirtualDr and Google. If anyone has recommendations about books other than the MS, please feel free to let me know.
I don't think I will work towards the MCSE for some time, if ever. In my current job position that would definitely be overkill, and probably grounds to get fired (too much knowledge, which translates to too much pay). Yes, my employer is pathetic!
Best of luck to all who are pursuing certifications or degrees!
P3-450
January 17th, 2005, 11:09 AM
Well done Jslater, and good luck with your MCSA:)
Sal_gal
January 28th, 2005, 02:56 AM
Got the cert in 1999, but i self-studied. Bought books & tapes, much less than $1000. Then did the "test a day" thing with cramsession.com. Passed the H/W & S/W, but that was 1999. Don't know if I could do it now with all the changes in computers.
I'm going to take the E-biz cert, do it with self-study.
bistro
January 28th, 2005, 09:54 AM
Aaaaaah....the Operation Delta Threads. Let us go back....back...back to those heady days where Queen of Hearts was building her first PC and merrily steering me into a cardiac arrest. :D :D
Those threads were a lot of fun....we all had a blast with them. It's fun to read them again and see how much technology has changed in such little time. The components have changed, but the principle building/troubleshooting techniques remain the same. Those threads can be a great resource for that A+ certification. :)
Silicon Scream
February 9th, 2005, 12:38 PM
Myself personally,
When I first started in IT, a couple of certifications is what would get me an interview and upon those I got many more:
However, it's amazing that now when I go for interviews (I switched jobs as recently as two months ago), I found that it was all of my experience that got me in the door. Everyone I interviewed for (3 int's, 3 offers) all wanted me because of what I had done, not where I had gone to school or what cert's I had.
Just my .02
jslater25
February 10th, 2005, 09:55 AM
Silicon Scream --
I agree it is not the paper that gets you the job, its the experience. However, not having the paper can HINDER you. At least that has been my experience so far. Looking at job postings on CareerBuilder, Monster, WorkinTexas, and a few others, I have noticed those jobs that have better wages (better than just an entry level position), all require MSCE or MSCA or a Network cert of some sort. Very few jobs simply state "3-5 years experience required". Therefore, I know in order to get my foot in the door to get the initial interview, I need to have more than just an A+ or MCDST cert plus 4 years experience. I have knowledge in the area, as well as experience, however the HR departments prevent my resume from getting to the right people becuase I lack the specified requirements.
Silicon Scream
February 10th, 2005, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by jslater25
Silicon Scream --
I agree it is not the paper that gets you the job, its the experience. However, not having the paper can HINDER you. At least that has been my experience so far. Looking at job postings on CareerBuilder, Monster, WorkinTexas, and a few others, I have noticed those jobs that have better wages (better than just an entry level position), all require MSCE or MSCA or a Network cert of some sort. Very few jobs simply state "3-5 years experience required". Therefore, I know in order to get my foot in the door to get the initial interview, I need to have more than just an A+ or MCDST cert plus 4 years experience. I have knowledge in the area, as well as experience, however the HR departments prevent my resume from getting to the right people becuase I lack the specified requirements.
Yea, it's unfortunate too that a lot of HR turkey's don't now what any of those certifications are so many people get dropped out of the gate when in reality they could be superior in overall qualifications.
I am in agreement however that certification's can only help you. I mean, I've never heard of certification's that hurt you per se.
photolady
April 13th, 2005, 09:25 AM
This thread is a couple months old but I thought I'd resurrect it just because I am beginning to study for my A+. I already have the job that pays more than entry level wages, but I and my boss would like me to get certified. A fellow part time co worker has the book, and the cd. We sat here one day this week and took the Hardware portion, for which I had not studied the book for, and I passed the hardware part. My learning comes from VDR, so I was happy that I was able to pass the practice hdw part. I had trouble with the laser printer portions, only getting part of them right. But honestly, how many laser printers are there in homes these days? LOL Btw, my boss would also like me to get the Net+, and really, I'm not interested in networking per se as a job function at any rate.
One of my questions is: how many tests do you take for the A+ cert? I saw on info installed from the cd that there are more than a few tests. Do you take all of them, or just a few? We did test number 1, hdw and test number 1 OS. The os we didn't fair as well as the hdw one.
Are there any study guides one can get online for A+?
DRead
April 13th, 2005, 10:14 AM
the a+ cert alone is, agreed pretty useless - but i am relyably informed that if you get both A+ and N+, then that is now considered industry standard.
the real knowledge comes from doing not sitting in a classroom, but it's those bits of paper that get you interviews and like silicon scream said, these can be built on (from my experience in UK, most employers will fund qualifictions).
photolady
April 13th, 2005, 01:10 PM
Like I said Dave I already have the job, and got that from my experience, but for some reason only known to my boss he wants me certified. I was thinking about MCSE also, though I doubt I will ever have need for these certs, I will get the A+.
And this weekend I'll be getting the A+ cert book so anything found and retrieved from the net will be an addition.
DRead
April 13th, 2005, 01:29 PM
I think that you should definately go for as many qualifications as poss, if ur getting it funded then you should take take take.....
I know that i'm only starting out in this big-bad bussiness and that my views are probably pretty typical for someone of my age, but why not just do it to prove to urself aswell that you can. E.g. we all know that MSCE is HARD, so if you get it anyway(even if you don't think you need it) then it's proof to urself that you really do understand all that Microsoft stuff!! :)
Anyways
enuff of my rambling
photolady
April 13th, 2005, 04:24 PM
Since I don't know your age, I can't comment on what you just said about it being typical for someone your age. I started college when I was 42, taking a year off to care for my husband who had lung cancer, I returned and finished with a BA, in 1999. Learning to me, is a "want to attitude", I love learning about computers and taking tests is fun to me. The more knowledge I gather through reading, and doing, suits me just fine. So, yes, I'll probably take the A+ first, then the Net+, then on to the MCSEs. :)
DRead
April 13th, 2005, 06:25 PM
Learning to me, is a "want to attitude", I love learning about computers
I totally agree with you but i think more along the lines that you learn by doing and from places like VDR but the courses and exams are a reinforcement of this and fill in gaps in your knowledge. I was on my A+ couse tonight myself and managed to pick up something that i didn't know about user rights and permissions in win2k, and the reason is because i don't need to use that particular feature either at home or in my work.
Since I don't know your age
in case you were interested, i'm 19(if only for a couple more weeks)......
photolady
April 13th, 2005, 07:28 PM
That's mostly what intreges me, the learning of something I no nothing about. Earlier versions of Windows happens to be one of those things I have no idea about except for a bit about 3.1. I grew up with no computer knowledge and what I've learned has been in the last 10 years. My first computer was a Commodore64, my next computer was a Mac. Then in 1998, I bought my first PC. It was a whole other world for me from what I did know. And since then, I've blossomed to PC Tech. :D I joined VDR in March 2002, and in January 2004 I became Super Moderator. Had I known what I know now when I was your age....I'd have started out as a computer tech then, but times were different then, computers weren't as readily available in the 60's as they are now. My Mac cost me over $3000. My latest PC cost me 1/3 that because I built it myself. And it's much faster than the Mac I had was, that Mac was top of the Mac line then, it only had a coprosessor at 66mhz. LOL Though, I can't complain about it, because it did what I wanted it for. And I could fix it then too. I just love working on computers and always have since I was first introduced to them in 1992.
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