Partion Magic 8.0 Troubles with 80GB External

[KatMac]

I have a new 80GB Western Digital HD (USB 2.0, preformatted FAT32) that will be for backup/storage only and transport between my Desktop and Notebook. I've hit a situation with Partition Magic 8.0 that may or may not be cause for concern (I'm still getting used to Primary/Logical etc.)

From what I've read and has been recommended to me, since there is no OS on this external drive, the partitions should be Logical. I'll have to convert it to NTFS (same as my desktop and notebook, both running XP) then partition it.

No matter what I try, P.Magic always wants to assign 7.8 MB of unallocated space at the front of the drive as Primary. (What I'm shooting on the external is a minimum of 4 Logical Partitions, 20GB each -OR- perhaps two 20GB Logicals and four 15GB Logicals.)

I did try formatting and converting the External drive to NTFS using Disk Mgmt in XP, but whether I do a full format or quick, the process gets nearly completed and I get an error that format was unsuccessful.

Here's how I partioned my desktop drive with P. Magic:

DESKTOP Disk 1: 40GB total
C:\ NTFS 6,000.8 MB (Primary)
D:\NTFS 12,197.8MB (Extended/Logical)
E:\NTFS 3,004.3MB (Extended/Logical)
F:\NTFS 5,098.7MB (Extended/Logical
G:\NTFS 5,977.3MB (Extended/Logical)
H:\NTFS 5,898.8MB (Extended/Logical)
(no unallocated space on this Disk)
Y: DVD-ROM
Z: CDRW

This is what the WD External HD looks like in P. Magic in it's raw state:
DISK 2
(*) Unallocated 76,293MB Used MB=0 Unused MB=0 Primary

If I then use PM to do a Pending Operation to just convert the entire drive to NTFS (no partitions) it will look like this:
DISK 2
(*) Unallocated 7.8 MB Primary
(*) Extended 76,285.2 MB Primary
Local Disk (I: ) 76, 285.2MB Logical

I can continue creating partitions in Pending Operations, and the drive letters descend as they should (I, J, K, etc.) and they will be Logical. But that 7.8MB at the front always remains as Primary. No amount of maneuvering on my part will get rid of that first 7.8 MB as Primary. It's almost like it's a default that some amount of space will be put at the front of the external drive, and assigned by PM as Primary.

Does anyone have any idea why P.Magic insists on this 7.8MB of unallocated space at the front of the drive as Primary?
Is it cause for concern, since there won't be an OS on the drive?

[DVOM]

Kat, I'm not sure it makes a difference. I've used primary partitions for data and haven't had any problems. See if you can create a 20G primary, if that's the size you want for the first partition.

In other words, I wouldn't worry about PM putting a primary on there first.

[KatMac]

Thanks DVOM. Have had so many HD problems lately, this one was making me a little edgy. I'll give it a go and post back, let you know how it works out. -Kat

[KatMac]

Didn't work. Tried 4 partitions, approx. 20GB each, first one Primary, remaining 3 logical.
Got the following error message:
Error 631 Can't execute the operation: Can't find correct partition

This is what PowerQuest (http://www.powerquest.com/support/primus/id1402.cfm) has to say about that error:
Cause: Cause(s) of the problem
Attempted to create a logical partition in a primary free space when an extended partition was already present on the drive.

Solution: Resize the existing extended partition to include the free space where you would like to create the logical partition. (They lost me on that one)


And if the solution doesn't work, per the link above they request 4 different reports/documentation be sent to them.

[DVOM]

Kat, did you try deleting all the partitions and starting over? If they're NTFS, you may need delpart to get rid of them.

[KatMac]

Hi DVOM,
Thanks for the reply. There's no partitions on the External drive to delete. It's still in it's raw state, preformatted FAT32.

Disk Mgmt. wouldn't complete the format to NTFS any Operations I tried in P. Magic wouldn't complete either. Since none of the formatting/partitioning I've tried has actually gone through, the External drive is still just like it was when I took it out of the box.

That's what puzzles me about the error message I got from P. Magic. I don't know which way to go at this point.

[jdc2000]

I'm not sure that you can set up a drive with only logical partitions on it. I think you will always need at least one primary partition, which is what you are getting with PM. However, as DVOM suggested, it shouldn't make any difference whether the partition is primary or logical as far as data storage goes.

Your last post is somewhat confusing however. You stated that the drive came preformatted as FAT32. If that is correct, then it had to be partitioned as well, and you will need to delete that partition before you can create the new partition(s) you want.

[Limerick]

Hi KatMac,

I think I would want to try running KillDisk (http://www.killdisk.com/features.htm) on that drive to ensure that there is absolutely nothing on it. Then set it up with PM as an Extended partition with the four Logicals in it.

Limerick

[DrMDJ]

As long as there is one drive on the system with a primary partition other dirves can be set up to have only an extended partition with one or more logicals defined in it (ie. no primary is needed).

If that drive was setup with FDISK at the factory it is completely normal for there to be 8mb unallocated at the front (fdisk will show it as 8mb free) if there is no primary partition on it. This is normal fdisk behavior as when there is only and extended partition then cylinder 0 is left unused. The easiest thing to do is just not worry about it. But if you want to get that 8mb back for use then I believe PM can do it (don't remember for sure, Ghosts' GDISK can do it). However, you are going to have to delete all partitions in PM, then start from scratch and allocate and extended partition, followed by the logical drives you want.

[KatMac]

Hi jdc2000,

I appreciate you and DVOM helping me out here. Although it's new to me and a little confusing, it's a good learning process.

OK, to clear up my last post, here's what the manual says that came with the External drive:

"Your Western Digital USB 2.0 external hard drive is preformatted as one FAT32 partition and is now ready to use"

To partition and reformat the drive: FAT32 partitions created by the utilities included in Windows 2000/XP have a partition size limitation of up to 32 GB. To create partitions greater than 32GB, you will need to reformat the drive using the NTFS file system." (Note: I want it to be NTFS since both my desktop and notebook internal drives are NTFS)

I think the following has probably contributed to my confusion: In P. Magic, the only option enabled for the external drive is "Create". The option to Delete the drive is greyed out. However, when I go into XP's Disk Management, the option to Delete the drive is enabled.

So based on that information, is this what I need to do?
1)delete the existing FAT32 partition using XP's Disk Mgmt
2)reformat and convert to NTFS using P. Magic (formatting in Disk Mgmt failed, per my post above)
3) then do my partitioning using P. Magic

Appreciate the guidance, I'd hate to fry a $200 drive!
Thanks -Kat

[DrMDJ]

If PM shows only "create" available, then there are currently no partitions defined on the disk. As for FAT32 and greater than 32gb... The native Windows XP tools can't create fat32 partitions greater than 32gb (just something MS decided to do). However, WinXP can deal with a fat32 partition greater than 32gb just fine. If you want one greater than 32gb then get a Win ME bootdisk with (its) fdisk and format on it (you can download one from www.bootdisk.com). Use this to create the greater than 32gb partitions.

But if the ultimate goal is NTFS why are you doing the extra step of first creating FAT32 paritions? PM 8 can create the NTFS partion(s) for you straight out (and so can WinXP for that matter).

[KatMac]

Apologies to Limerick and DrMDJ: I did not see that you both had posted while I was typing to jdc2000. Thank you.

OK, per Limerick's suggestion I ran KillDisk. Only used it to view things, didn't wipe out anything. External Drive is connected, but KillDisk didn't read anything from it. Only displayed floppy and Internal HDD. Here's what it showed:
First Line: Floppy Drive
Second Line: Internal HDD listed as follows:
Ident = 80
Type = HDD
Size = 37.2GB
Heads = LBA
Cylinders = LBA
Sectors = 63
Logical Drives = C: D: E: F: G: H:

DrMDJ: Not trying to create FAT32 partitions. That info in my last post (in italics) was quoted from the Ext. HD manual, to clarify in response to jdc2000's last comment.

Real dumb question here, but if one deletes a drive, how will either Disk Mgmt or P. Magic be able to recognize it and proceed from there?

[DrMDJ]

It's not a drive that you would be (want to be) deleting, it is the partition (or partitions) on it.

[KatMac]

OK, I went into Disk Mgmt. Deleted the partition on the External HDD.

Appears no matter which approach I take, this drive is hell-bent on having space right up at the front. There are no typos in the numbers below, MB listed are exactly as I see them.

From Disk Mgmt Deleted the partition Then had 74.5 MB unallocated Chose New Partition Had choices of Primary or Extended, chose Extended Only two choices for size: either 76,285 or 10,749. Up/down arrows only jump between these two choices, nothing else available Chose the larger number: 76,285MB End result: 74.49GB free space in Extended Partition

Left Disk Mgmt and went to Partition Magic for a better view.

P.Magic displays the following Still shows unallocated 7.8MB Primary up front Extended, 76,227.4 MB, Primary Unallocated 76,227.3 (that's not a typo) Logical Unallocated 7.8 Primary

I stopped at that point. This is getting real confusing to me. I dont' understand why Disk Mgmt didn't show the full 80GB unallocated after I deleted the partition. None of the numbers above appear to match up well at all, and I'm not sure how to proceed at this point.

[Admiral]

I have just looked at my system and found the same 7.8Mb at the beginning of my second hard drive. When I formatted this WITH FDISK I instructed it to make a partition of 60G FAT32 and it has given me 58,627.8. I assumed the difference in size and the unallocated amount at the from was something to do with cluster sizes and such like.

My system is two drives, 60G and 80G running Windows ME with the drives partitioned as C (system and programs), D (Compaq recovery files), E (Data Archive and backup) on drive 0 and F (ACurrent data) on drive 1 with 20 G at the end of drive 1 currently unallocated.

[KatMac]

Admiral, thanks for sharing what you've got. Saw your post and decided to attempt this one more time. Think I've got everything done OK now (fingers crossed). Wasn't easy though, P. Magic kept hanging on me.

I tried a different approach, doing one Operation at a time rather than batching. P.Magic would go through the first step (create the partition) then hang. Had to End Task to get out. Then I'd go to Disk Mgmt and the partition would be there, sized as I wanted it. So I used Disk Mgmt to format/convert to NTFS. (Couldn't do the entire process in Disk Mgmt because "Primary" was only option enabled.) I had to repeat this 'program hopping' until all 4 partitions were completed, as PM continued to hang after creating each new partition.

Here's what I've got now per P. Magic:

Unallocated 7.8MB Primary
(I)NTFS 15,0006 Logical
(J)NTFS 15,006 Logical
(K)NTFS 20,002 Logical
(L)NTFS 26,270 Logical

This is what's displayed in Disk Management:
(I) 14.65GB NTFS Healthy Extended/Logical
(J) 14.65GB NTFS Healthy Extended/Logical
(K) 19.53GB NTFS Healthy Extended/Logical
(L) 25.65 GB NTFS Healthy Extended/Logical

I tried a couple test "Saves" of documents and was able to retrieve them OK.

I just hope I've not goobered up this drive somehow. Was going to run Western Digital's Data Lifeguard (http://support.wdc.com/download/), New version 10.0 supports USB and is 'certified to work on all WD hard drives'. But my PC won't boot with External drive connected. If I disconnect the external drive, boot from Data Lifeguard floppy, then plug in external HD, the external HD isn't detected by DataLifeguard. Only internal drive is. Oh well. Kind of burned out on this. I sure hope there's no hidden problem with the drive.

Many thanks to all of you who helped me out! -Kat

[Limerick]

Hi KatMac,

"Still shows unallocated 7.8MB Primary up front."

You know... I've just now learned something in this saga that you have been trying to figure out. I don't think I had ever even paid attention to this enigmatic factor that has just grabbed my attention:

I have three physical hard drives in this machine --

Drive 1 - an 80 GB partitioned C thru G
Drive 2 - a 120 GB that has only partition H (just for storing Ghost images)
Drive 3 - a 30 GB that has nothing but Mandrake Linux on it

When I look at these drives in Partition Magic, all three of them have that same 7.8 GB of unallocated Primary partition! Why that is the case, I simply don't know. :eek:

KatMac, for what it's worth, I'd just forget that it is there, and let 'er rip in going ahead and setting yours up the way you want it. :D

*** Later Edit ***
I see that you posted just ahead of me, and that you've gone ahead with it! Sounds like you've nailed it! Good girl! :)

Limerick

[KatMac]

Thanks Limerick - I was feeling pretty inept over this whole thing, but reading your post made me feel a lot better. :) -Kat

[Train]

That is part of the boot sector. And yes it needs to be there.
My 80 shows the 7.8MB and my 30's show 7.4MB.

[KatMac]

Thanks, Train. I'm going to just rest easy that at least the partitioning phase has been successful. I have, however, encountered yet another issue (hopefully minor and unrelated to Partition Magic) with this drive, but that belongs in General Hardware.

Appreciate everyone's input. -Kat

[DrMDJ]

Re the 7.8mb... As I said in an earlier reply, when no primary partition is allocated on a drive, then cylinder zero is not used. Allocation of the extended partition begins with cylinder 1. It's just the convention for most partitioning tools. That is why the unallocated 7.8mb (number varies some depending on the drive).

[Train]

Thanks for the update DrMDJ. Missed it the first time around. Need new glasses I quess. ;)